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	<title>Comments on: Spiralling Ever Downwards</title>
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	<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/</link>
	<description>Spiritual and Self Development</description>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-732</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-732</guid>
		<description>Looks like an interesting video Dan!  Thanks.

I didn&#039;t know that about UK law.  The problem is fear isn&#039;t it.  We have become so accustomed to what we may lose that we fear taking any action.

I noticed on the front of Saturadays telegraph that things have been taken a few steps further.  The public is being hired by local councils to act as snoops - or &#039;covert human intelligence&#039; as they are being called.  This includes hiring kids as young as 8 years old.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2689996/Children-aged-eight-enlisted-as-council-snoopers.html

It&#039;s difficult not to find fear and anger in this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like an interesting video Dan!  Thanks.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t know that about UK law.  The problem is fear isn&#8217;t it.  We have become so accustomed to what we may lose that we fear taking any action.</p>
<p>I noticed on the front of Saturadays telegraph that things have been taken a few steps further.  The public is being hired by local councils to act as snoops &#8211; or &#8216;covert human intelligence&#8217; as they are being called.  This includes hiring kids as young as 8 years old.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2689996/Children-aged-eight-enlisted-as-council-snoopers.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2689996/Children-aged-eight-enlisted-as-council-snoopers.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult not to find fear and anger in this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-731</guid>
		<description>All it would take is for people to not accept it period but they would have to be willing to go to jail thats all it would take. I say that because freedom isnt free you have to be willing to give somthing if you dont you allow the abuse you make excuses to yourself why its ok and how you can manage to live with it but then that only means they will further take your freedoms you must be willing to sacrifice.

An interesting thing however is the law does protect us against all of this, infact you never had to pay a fine in your whole life or follow any of the rules if you chose not to and the law of this country would actually protect you if you chose to do that however we have been tricked into thinking we are obliged to conform to whatever new rules and regulations they create you are not. 

for more information go here

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6729904244308031068&amp;ei=qujHSOPdMoiuiAL695XOAg&amp;q=think+free&amp;hl=en</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All it would take is for people to not accept it period but they would have to be willing to go to jail thats all it would take. I say that because freedom isnt free you have to be willing to give somthing if you dont you allow the abuse you make excuses to yourself why its ok and how you can manage to live with it but then that only means they will further take your freedoms you must be willing to sacrifice.</p>
<p>An interesting thing however is the law does protect us against all of this, infact you never had to pay a fine in your whole life or follow any of the rules if you chose not to and the law of this country would actually protect you if you chose to do that however we have been tricked into thinking we are obliged to conform to whatever new rules and regulations they create you are not. </p>
<p>for more information go here</p>
<p><a href="http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6729904244308031068&amp;ei=qujHSOPdMoiuiAL695XOAg&amp;q=think+free&amp;hl=en" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6729904244308031068&amp;ei=qujHSOPdMoiuiAL695XOAg&amp;q=think+free&amp;hl=en</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-723</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-723</guid>
		<description>The more laws we create, the more criminals we create. Why yes, we should not be tossing litter, as in a previous comment, but the real problem in not in the enforcement, it&#039;s in the attitude that created the urge to litter in the first place. Obviously, this applies to more than just littering. I am trying to say that it&#039;s not lack of enforcement that causes these &#039;problems&#039;, it&#039;s some underlying cultural issues. Maybe ignorance, lack of education, maybe they are acting out against a system with too many rules - I don&#039;t know. 

In any case, I think people will just act out against each other the more they are pushed or forced to &#039;behave&#039;. Kind of a hostile finger pointing environment where people don&#039;t really get along. The just behave how they are told -or else. We should all get along because we want to; not because we have to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more laws we create, the more criminals we create. Why yes, we should not be tossing litter, as in a previous comment, but the real problem in not in the enforcement, it&#8217;s in the attitude that created the urge to litter in the first place. Obviously, this applies to more than just littering. I am trying to say that it&#8217;s not lack of enforcement that causes these &#8216;problems&#8217;, it&#8217;s some underlying cultural issues. Maybe ignorance, lack of education, maybe they are acting out against a system with too many rules &#8211; I don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>In any case, I think people will just act out against each other the more they are pushed or forced to &#8216;behave&#8217;. Kind of a hostile finger pointing environment where people don&#8217;t really get along. The just behave how they are told -or else. We should all get along because we want to; not because we have to.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-722</guid>
		<description>The problem that I see it - is that this isn&#039;t a responsible method of enforcement.  It doesn&#039;t really matter how decent the people may or may not be - the trouble arises when the people are set-up to police themselves.

Your right &#039;due process&#039; should indeed be maintained, and that requires reasonable rules and transparent methods and means of enforcement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem that I see it &#8211; is that this isn&#8217;t a responsible method of enforcement.  It doesn&#8217;t really matter how decent the people may or may not be &#8211; the trouble arises when the people are set-up to police themselves.</p>
<p>Your right &#8216;due process&#8217; should indeed be maintained, and that requires reasonable rules and transparent methods and means of enforcement.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-720</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 19:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-720</guid>
		<description>I would certainly hope that the people utilizing these new means of &#039;enforcement&#039; are human, and thus utilize common sense and benefit of the doubt. However, I&#039;m sure there are abusers out there who would lock somone up in a temporary holding cell, or the like, just to feel powerful or in control. I certainly hope society and community would hold the abusers accountable, the same way as the abused offenders. 

I definitely believe &quot;due process&quot; should be maintained regardless of who is empowered to enforce the rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would certainly hope that the people utilizing these new means of &#8216;enforcement&#8217; are human, and thus utilize common sense and benefit of the doubt. However, I&#8217;m sure there are abusers out there who would lock somone up in a temporary holding cell, or the like, just to feel powerful or in control. I certainly hope society and community would hold the abusers accountable, the same way as the abused offenders. </p>
<p>I definitely believe &#8220;due process&#8221; should be maintained regardless of who is empowered to enforce the rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-717</guid>
		<description>Thanks Panoramic. :)

I think that in the end the domination of the world Ego will fade away; it has a habit of shooting itself in the foot... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Panoramic. <img src='http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think that in the end the domination of the world Ego will fade away; it has a habit of shooting itself in the foot&#8230; <img src='http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Become Panoramic</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-715</link>
		<dc:creator>Become Panoramic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-715</guid>
		<description>Well handled Marcus. Its a pleasure to read comments from someone who had no need to partake in verbal combat - silent knowing is a wonderful thing :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well handled Marcus. Its a pleasure to read comments from someone who had no need to partake in verbal combat &#8211; silent knowing is a wonderful thing <img src='http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-711</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Justin, I think you have summed up your intentions here very well!  :)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Justin, I think you have summed up your intentions here very well!  <img src='http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Justin Canham</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-710</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Canham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-710</guid>
		<description>Well let&#039;s break it down:

&#039;We cannot put our bins out too early&#039;. - What! I have never heard of such nonsense. If it does happen then it is very localised and certainly not normal.

&#039;We must put our rubbish in the correct bin&#039;. Of course you must. The reason for this is to ensure efficient recycling. The alternative is to continue unsustainable land-filling and speed up the loss of resources.

&#039;People cannot smoke&#039;. People most certainly can smoke. What they cannot do is impose their carcinogens on others in internal public areas. Should it be normal for smokers to do as they please?

&#039;Parking regulations are ridiculous&#039;. In what way. Perhaps have no parking regulations or just enough regulation to satisfy you?

&#039;Certain words and phrases can get a person in ‘trouble’&#039;. Excuse me? What do you mean? Perhaps you mean racist language. That is on fact the only language that is prohibited. Would you prefer otherwise?

I don&#039;t think I need to make accusations you seem to make them against yourself quite adequately. Think hard about the things you seem to agree with and ask yourself why many think of you as the problem.

From all that you have said you sound exactly like an extreme right wing Tory, perhaps even BNP. People with your views must be challenged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well let&#8217;s break it down:</p>
<p>&#8216;We cannot put our bins out too early&#8217;. &#8211; What! I have never heard of such nonsense. If it does happen then it is very localised and certainly not normal.</p>
<p>&#8216;We must put our rubbish in the correct bin&#8217;. Of course you must. The reason for this is to ensure efficient recycling. The alternative is to continue unsustainable land-filling and speed up the loss of resources.</p>
<p>&#8216;People cannot smoke&#8217;. People most certainly can smoke. What they cannot do is impose their carcinogens on others in internal public areas. Should it be normal for smokers to do as they please?</p>
<p>&#8216;Parking regulations are ridiculous&#8217;. In what way. Perhaps have no parking regulations or just enough regulation to satisfy you?</p>
<p>&#8216;Certain words and phrases can get a person in ‘trouble’&#8217;. Excuse me? What do you mean? Perhaps you mean racist language. That is on fact the only language that is prohibited. Would you prefer otherwise?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I need to make accusations you seem to make them against yourself quite adequately. Think hard about the things you seem to agree with and ask yourself why many think of you as the problem.</p>
<p>From all that you have said you sound exactly like an extreme right wing Tory, perhaps even BNP. People with your views must be challenged.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/comment-page-1/#comment-709</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/spiralling-ever-downwards/#comment-709</guid>
		<description>You are right, the police are tied by too many bureaucratic procedures.  Not all &#039;police-states&#039; need be enforced by &lt;i&gt;force&lt;/i&gt;.  A population (by population I mean both citizens and authority figures) that cannot move through fear of breaking regulations, laws, and rules is equally tied.  We cannot put our bins out too early, we must put our rubbish in the correct bin, people cannot smoke, parking regulations are ridiculous, certain words and phrases can get a person in &#039;trouble&#039;; it goes on and on.  The Police are tied by too many rules, just as the people are tied by too many rules.  The bureaucratic nonsense goes both ways and this is the &#039;police-state&#039; that I am referring too.  Where people are &#039;policed&#039; by each other, bolstered by too many rules and bureaucracy, and the fear or threat of being &#039;wrong&#039; or a &#039;problem&#039;.

So I agree completely, cut the red-tape.

You speak of me being the problem.  Yet you have written three comments here and in each one you have made accusations against me.  From being a litter dropper, to a supporter of criminals and now apparently I am the so called &#039;problem&#039;.

Why do you make such accusations?  Should I not have written the original post?  Is a person holding an opinion different to yours the cause all social problems?  So ok - I am open to the possibility that I am &#039;wrong&#039; - that&#039;s a valid result of freewill.  But why is it a &#039;problem&#039;, and why does it demand that you make accusations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right, the police are tied by too many bureaucratic procedures.  Not all &#8216;police-states&#8217; need be enforced by <i>force</i>.  A population (by population I mean both citizens and authority figures) that cannot move through fear of breaking regulations, laws, and rules is equally tied.  We cannot put our bins out too early, we must put our rubbish in the correct bin, people cannot smoke, parking regulations are ridiculous, certain words and phrases can get a person in &#8216;trouble&#8217;; it goes on and on.  The Police are tied by too many rules, just as the people are tied by too many rules.  The bureaucratic nonsense goes both ways and this is the &#8216;police-state&#8217; that I am referring too.  Where people are &#8216;policed&#8217; by each other, bolstered by too many rules and bureaucracy, and the fear or threat of being &#8216;wrong&#8217; or a &#8216;problem&#8217;.</p>
<p>So I agree completely, cut the red-tape.</p>
<p>You speak of me being the problem.  Yet you have written three comments here and in each one you have made accusations against me.  From being a litter dropper, to a supporter of criminals and now apparently I am the so called &#8216;problem&#8217;.</p>
<p>Why do you make such accusations?  Should I not have written the original post?  Is a person holding an opinion different to yours the cause all social problems?  So ok &#8211; I am open to the possibility that I am &#8216;wrong&#8217; &#8211; that&#8217;s a valid result of freewill.  But why is it a &#8216;problem&#8217;, and why does it demand that you make accusations?</p>
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